Closure?

[ysobelle]

I always say it's better to know than not know. Usually I'm right.

jg's death was suicide.


There was so much I didn't know. So much about which I had no fucking clue. I saw him online last week and instinctively went to say hi, then checked myself-- I was tired, I was down, I didn't want to chat. The classic "I'll talk to him later." The common theme among all the people coming out of the woodwork seems to be "I hadn't talked to him in a while." Right before they say how wonderful he was, and how fabulous, and wacky, and creative, and incredibly, incredibly generous. I'm angry. I'm so angry. Why didn't he reach out to us? Why didn't we take that extra minute? How could he do this to his wife and son at Christmas? How are they, for the rest of their lives, ever going to hear a stupid Christmas song without losing their minds? How is Ian going to cope with losing his father at 13? How can I forgive you for this? How can I get over the fact that I had this great friend whom I totally took for granted would always be around?

But as angry as I am, I know it's pointless. People don't commit suicide because they're in spotless, perfect health. Depression is a disease. Asking someone who's suicidally depressed to get help is like asking someone who has cancer to walk it off. I, of all people, should understand that. Part of being suicidal is, by fucking definition, the ultimate inability to take care of yourself. If you truly, absolutely want to die, and you're not just making a desperate plea for someone, ANYONE, to help you, the last thing you're going to do is seek aid.

I never wanted to fall that far, myself. Even in my absolute worst hours, I wasn't that far down. I understood it, once. Why people do it. I've had days when I would have done almost anything to make the pain stop. I've had days when I've fallen on my knees and screamed and sobbed and asked over and over again "Why the fuck me?" Depression has turned my life upside down and beaten the shit out of me. But I'm still here.

I don't say this as some brave soldier. Some days, I feel like I've left a limb or two on the battlefield. I still fight every day to get up and get moving. I still have leftover bitterness and hurt and anger and every time someone simpers self-righteously at me, "Well, you just need to get over that," I want to beat them in the face with my fists. I take the pills. I have the therapists. I do what I'm supposed to. And sometimes, it's still not enough.

I'm not excusing jg from what he did. I'm angry. I'm horrified. I'm bewildered and grieving and stunned. If I could say one thing to him, it'd probably be "What the fuck were you thinking?" But I can't pretend I don't, somehow, in some limited way, understand. And that in itself is terrifying.

Comments

[mseuphrates.livejournal.com]

*hugs*
I had to tell 'Yote when I got him up for work tonight (I'd been at my son's band conert, and had poked around online once I got home, so I'd gotten the news before him). I'd forwarded the details to him, but I didn't want him to just read it.
He looked like he'd been sucker-punched.

And believe me...I've been there, too. The only thing that kept me from it a couple of years ago was my kids. I can't imagine the depth of pain he must have been in to do this in spite of leaving Ian behind.

And with the outpouring of people who've come out of the woodwork over the last several days...I just keep thinking "if only he'd known how many people cared..." Sigh. But you're right...it doesn't change anything. Except maybe remind us not to put it off the *next* time...

*hugs*

[scarletwildfire.livejournal.com]

I want the details... I have to see it with my own eyes in order to believe it...

Can you tell me where to find them?


He was such a cool cool person! I can't begin to tell you, he was a rare sort.

[ysobelle.livejournal.com]

http://www.overtherhine.com/orchard/index.php?showtopic=8314&st=50&start=50



It's grim. He really, really, really meant to do it.

[mseuphrates.livejournal.com]

You can get them on the Orchard, but it's "spoilered" (meaning it's blocked out). I'll e-mail it like I did 'Yote.
*hugs*

[mirroreyes.livejournal.com]

Hugs Yso closely.
believe it or not, I understand.

I texted last night to see how you were hanging in... I hope you are slowly getting "better". its a relative term. I am here, you know that I hope.
huge hugs.
deep breaths.
Sometimes the only thing we can do is cling to one another.

[scarletwildfire.livejournal.com]

OH Dear... I'm right there with you... *HUGS!*


I've known a lot of people that follow OTR around.... he was one of the few that I looked forward to seeing at every show. We even got him stuck on Michael Kelsey, if memory serves me. And I want to kick myself because of all those years the closest I got to him would be giving him a phone call before the show to make sure he knew it was going on and to show up. :(

[optimistprime.livejournal.com]

I know that we don't know each other very well -- we're friends of friends, happy people we see at faire now and then -- but I want you to know that today I hold you in my heart and truly wish I had the answers you need. Unfortunately those are answers that nobody will ever have and getting past that is, I think, the hardest part. To say I understand where you're at sounds cliche, but I've been there and have more than a guess at the jumble of emotions. I'm here if you want to talk, scream, vent, cry, whatever... Rho has my number...

::hugs::

[mstarfire.livejournal.com]

{{{HUGS}}}

[freyas-fire.livejournal.com]

Hon, I didn't know him, but I've been down that road myself. If you need to chat, remember I live right down the street, and I'd be happy to go grab a cup of coffee and listen to you vent. ::hugs::

[istilana.livejournal.com]

For the record, I am still around, hiding in MN but still around. Dealing with a round of depression right now, a little bit worse then the past few months, but I blame the weather and the birth control pills. So I today I am going tanning and then to the doctor to change the pills to something else.

I am so sorry for your loss, I am sorry for everyone's loss. I took some time to sit and read a good chunk of the posts over at the OtR board. This is so very sad to read. I find my self being affected by a man I did not even know existed, until he no longer existed. I hope that people who are out there, who do fight with depression can at least take the message away from this as, this is what happens when you do not reach out. This is what happens when you leave suddenly.

For you, much love and hugs.

[well-artesia.livejournal.com]

I don't think I can write ten words on this without writing ten pages. But I feel much as you do, and I wanted to add this: Nothing you could have said would have made a difference... if you'd talked to him, you'd be remembering it as your last conversation, and you'd have that much more to question and dissect, looking for clues that this was coming. No one could have stopped this but him.

[well-artesia.livejournal.com]

Oh and you said:
>>But as angry as I am, I know it's pointless.<<

It's not pointless. Yes, it's a disease. A brain chemistry problem. But that's *all* it is. One he knew about, had meds for, and chose to deny or ignore.

And if he gets a pass on being a selfish ass because of brain chemicals, then he shouldn't get credit for being his lively happy self either. It's only fair, in my book anyway, to hold him accountable for his choices - good AND bad.

And anger is just one stage of grief. It'll pass, and we'll be ok. And so will everyone else. *hugs*

[snowcarpet.livejournal.com]

Ok, this pisses me off enough to make me rant a little...

It's easy to level blame at those who are mentally ill. Easy, and wrong.
"Just take the meds" - ugh. Look, it's perfectly possible for a depressed person to take the meds and NOT FEEL BETTER. And, it's possible to take the meds and find that you feel just enough better to kill yourself (previously, you were too depressed to even plan suicide effectively.)

And I'm going to shut up now before I say a whole lot more, with added nastiness.

[(Anonymous)]

I pointedly DIDN'T rant or write the ten pages I could have written, but I have no nastiness. People have different feelings about this issue because they come from different points of view, different experiences, different personalities.

I'm well aware of all the permutations of depression. All TOO aware of the same possibilities of more serious mental illnesses, too, I assure you! Part of my own personal reaction to this related to the fact that when I was the same age jg's son is now, I "lost" my father, but not physically... he lived to stalk us, violate restraining orders and harass us for years, all while utterly denying any illness (even after a judge said he couldn't see his kids except under the supervision of a psychiatrist) at all. It wasn't him, he said, it was everyone else persecuting him.

I've never suggested that it's a matter of "just taking the meds"... I know it's a huge undertaking to try to straighten out a brain. But at least people on meds have made SOME positive choice, some effort... and there are many who struggle and struggle to be well, trying different combinations of drugs, different therapies, etc. There are those listen to doctors and family and work very hard to try to be the best people they can be, regardless. It's the *effort* that matters to me.

I strongly believe in personal accountability, and I believe that when someone chooses an action understanding the outcome, they should be held responsible for it. If jg had as willfully beaten the crap out of his wife (with the same level of awareness of the consequences), he'd have been held accountable legally, illness or no... and rightfully so (in my book.) Depression (or manic-depression or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, or whatever) doesn't give you a right to hurt others willfully. But again, this is just my own feeling about it. Your mileage may vary.

On a different but related note: anger *is* a legitimate state of grief, rational or not. Telling people they're grieving "wrongly" isn't fair - Nikki and I have a right to be angry about choices jg made, regardless of any other factors.

I also think that we will, sooner probably rather than later, get over it, and move on to another stage of grieving that doesn't irk you so.

I'm sorry to have riled you up; I know this is a heady, emotional issue, and we all really need to respect and help one another deal with this situation, not argue about feelings that aren't really rational to begin with (by definition.)

oops

[well-artesia.livejournal.com]

Sorry, that was me. Forgot to login. :)

[snowcarpet.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I just got a little cranky :(
I apologize!

[well-artesia.livejournal.com]

:) Me too. S'ok - have a great holiday!