You Don&#39;t Really Know Til You Try.

"All pro-choice women should be."

Should pro-choice men not be?

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Ahem. I'm reminded of the classic illustration of the ham and egg breakfast: the chicken's involved, the pig's committed.

Ultimately, it's not a question any man will ever have to face physically... so I understand Nikki's word choice here.

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Yeah, yeah-- but he's right, too. This is-- or should be-- an everyone-issue. Not every woman who has to face this choice has to do it without her partner, thankfully, but if a couple has to go that route, they should be able to make the choice between them-- without someone completely uninvolved butting in.

I just get pissed when it's men standing on the curb at the womens' clinic screaming about how damned a woman is for going in there, or when it's men in Congress making a decision for me that they themselves will never have to face.

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Can ya have it both ways? Men either have a right to express an opinion and/or make policy on women's birth control methods and the fate of their potential unborn children... or they don't. I'm not sure it's really fair to say that they can have an opinion only as long as it's one you agree with... :)

But then, I'm the generally-apolitical every-man-for-himself leave-me-alone-and-I-won't-cause-a-fuss one, remember? :)

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Ooops. Sorry. I should have been more clear. I don't mind men having a say about abortion if it's THEIR child. I don't mind women having a say about abortion when they are or may have to or have had to go through it-- which pretty much means all women. But when men-- and sometimes women-- who have nothing to do with the situation try to mandate what other people can or cannot do, then I get pissed. My take on it can be summed up in one bumper sticker: "Against abortion? Don't have one." I don't think abortion should be a legal issue-- it's a moral, ethical, and medical issue, and is, essentially, between a woman and her soul.

But then, Judaism actually MANDATES abortion when the woman's life is in danger, so I come from a VERY different theological background than most of the folks on the curb.

Sigh. I still don't think I'm being very clear. A woman lives much of her life with the possibility that she may one day have to make this choice about her body. She should have that choice, without people completely uninvolved trying to make a decision for her. How's that?

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She should have that choice, without people completely uninvolved trying to make a decision for her.

I utterly agree.

And that's why I think I DO mind a man having a say about abortion even when it IS his child. When that man is capable of choosing to carry that child inside himself for nine months with all of the attendant health risks and responsibilities, then he can have a say... until then, it's the woman's body - she has the sole right to say how she uses it.

See why I stay out of this stuff? ;)

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I'm a pro-life man and that's why I'm worried about Bush's anti-abortion stance. Regardless of whether or not I can ever carry a child or not, I damn well want the women in my life (girlfriend, friends, sister, etc.) to still have that right. So, in that sense, it's a personal issue for a lot of men. And I have the right to say that!

Of course, that means anti-abortion men have the right to say women shouldn't have abortions in political venues. (I think protesting at clinics should be banned, those women have enough on their minds right then.) And let's not forget that there are a lot of anti-abortion WOMEN out there that have the right to say no woman should have an abortion. This isn't, at least in this day and age in America, a female vs. male issue. It's more of a Christian right vs. lots of other people issue.

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I'm a pro-life man and that's why I'm worried about Bush's anti-abortion stance. Regardless of whether or not I can ever carry a child or not, I damn well want the women in my life (girlfriend, friends, sister, etc.) to still have that right.

I'm confused: pro-life men LOVE Bush's stance, don't they? Did I miss something? Is someone suggesting abortions could become mandatory?! There's a spin I hadn't heard before.

People have the right to SAY anything they please, of course. I wasn't suggesting that we restrict Free Speech, and you're missing my point entirely if that's how you read it.

Should a pro-abortion man have a right to insist that a woman abort his child? Then neither should he have the right to insist that she carry it to term. It's simply not his decision. And if it's not the father's decision, it's certainly no one else's.

FWIW: there are plenty of Christians who are compassionately pro-choice.

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Sorry, meant to say pro-choice up there.

People have the right to SAY anything they please, of course. I wasn't suggesting that we restrict Free Speech, and you're missing my point entirely if that's how you read it.

Nope. I was responding to your initial post where you implied that men's opinions are the legal status of abortion are not as important as women's.

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... well that makes a lot more sense. :)

And if that's what you took from what I was saying originally, then yes, you read it correctly the first time... :)

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I think the pro-choice cause would be furthered more by encouraging pro-choice men to voice their opinions to their senators and congressman than by telling them their opinions are not important.

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Well, perhaps if I were a political being, I'd care about that. But I'm not. (I leave that to Ysobelle. ;)

Again, I'll ask you: Does a pro-choice man have a right to demand that his child be aborted? If she disagrees, is it murder if he slips RU-486 in a woman's drink?

Pregnancy, or lack thereof, is STRICTLY a woman's decision. To give men the impression that they should have some say in the matter politically but not personally would be wrong, I think.

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Regardless, in the world we live in today, the pro-choice cause would likely be furthered more by encouraging pro-choice men to voice their opinions to their senators and congressman than by telling them their opinions are not important.

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Regardless, to give men the impression that they should have some say in the matter politically but not personally would be wrong, I think.

We could do this for quite a while. ;)

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Men do have a say in the matter politically.

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invizibleangel.livejournal.com

I've been worried since November of 1999

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Thanks for the links, Nik.

BTW, have a look at my Independence Day set on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miscelena/sets/546380/
You will giggle, I can almost guarantee it! :)

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Also: Isn't (http://ppaction.org/portal/sr_vol_adform.html)
a peculiar shorthand; "roe" being *eggs*, after all? ;)

Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I know. But still.

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You are just eight shades of wrong, there, woman.

Snerk!

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HAs Beth EVER had a photo taken with her mouth closed???

Those are hysterical. Oh, I wish I were going to see you guys this weekend! Soon, though. Yay!

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